# Thursday, October 19, 2006
"How many pyramids have gotten built since the Egyptians adopted an Islamic work ethic?

Seriously, can you not see that Islamic values have contributed to the lack of productivity, which in turn contributes so much to the poverty level of the region.

Democracy isn't going to fix that problem."
(RT's comment)

Well first of all, the Romans and the Greeks didn't built any either. And second, I think the Muslim didn't exactly pray inside Pyramids nor temples so they have little use for them.

But they do built pretty majestic and amazing Mosques here. If you come to Cairo, don't forget to  visit those 1000-900 year old Mosques that still pronounce their glorious past.

About the Islamic values contributing to the lack of productivity, I would not count that as much.  Dubai and Qatar are doing really really well - without much dependency of oil. Malaysia is doing good as well.

In the same vein, the heavily Catholic Latin America  and much the rest of Christian Africa are also in the same shit hole in terms of productivity in general.

No, democracy aint' going to fix Egypt. It takes more than that. It needs a few good leaders.

After hearing again on how Muslims describe Islam, I think it's a good bet that Muslim communities would actually progress so much faster if they actually follow the values of Islam.

Take a look at the issue of corruption. Fuckin' a. Stop doing that and you will see a different Middle East.

Take a look at the issue of cleanlines. They have to clean before they pray, which is five times a day. Imagine being reminded to be clean five times a day. And yet a lot of Muslim majority cities are dirty.

What the Egyptian accomplish in Cairo is actually creating a safe large city. Man, this is the safest big city I have been. You can go to poor areas at night and you will feel safe. Try that in South Chicago.

What Egypt needs is not necessarily democracy. It needs less selfishness and more patriots -  people that care for the good of the country, instead of its own limited self interest. More patriots - like wht USA has plenty of.
posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:14:56 AM (Egypt Standard Time, UTC+02:00)  #    Comments [3]
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Thursday, October 19, 2006 4:27:22 AM (Egypt Standard Time, UTC+02:00)
Bravo, bien dit ;)
zeeead ( ze frenchi)
Friday, October 20, 2006 6:14:53 PM (Egypt Standard Time, UTC+02:00)
Well if I had to choose between an employee who had to stop working and pray 5 times a day, and on e who did not........

Does Islam not severely restrict the potential productivity of 50% of the population...women?

How much time is wasted "teaching" Islam at Middle Eastern Universities and Madrasses compared to how much time is spent teaching science and management skill?

Why does Saudi Arabia have to import foreign labor while at the same time the indigenous workforce sits at home?

Yes corruption runs rampant in Arab societies, but at the same time its in Islamic Clerics' best interests to keep their followers mired in poverty and uneducated. Their influence over society would wain if the majority of adherents were prosperous and had intellectual freedom.
RT
Friday, October 20, 2006 8:46:26 PM (Egypt Standard Time, UTC+02:00)
Muslim prayer during the day takes less than 5 minutes and only 2 or 3 are performed during the working hours. It's not an issue. And they are pretty practical. All they need is a prayer mat and a direction to Mecca. Here you see people pray on the side of a busy street.

I don't think Qur'an ever says 'woman, your role is to be barefeet and pregnant'. I suspect a lot of practices that happens in Muslim communities about women's restriction is more a reflection of a local culture than a mandate of Islam.

For example, the issue marriage. Ok, it's clear you are not allowed to fornicate before marriage. But here in Egypt, even after you are married under the religion (like going to church-married), it is a social taboo to bang your hottie wife straight away until you have the wedding party, which can be two weeks or 6 months away. In other places, if you are OK under Islam, it's green light.

I think Islam is introduced at the young age to children and those are mostly extra-curricular activity and also taught at home. School would have subjects about Islam, but those subjects are minorities compared other subjects.

The word Madrassa simply means school in Arabic - without a conotation whether it is a religious school or not. So if you are going to religious school and trying to become a cleric, then you'll study Islam all the time. But religious text study won't help you to build bridge, so universities teach science, etc, etc, etc. Normal stuff.

In all the situation about education is simple. Just like you don't want to have everybody goes to Seminaries to be a priest, you don't want everybody going to Islamic religious school. Somebody has to be productive.

So when you hear stories about majority of kids in Western Pakistan learn nothing but the Qur'an, then it's simply plain stupidity.

About Saudi Arabia, they are the Hugo-Chavez-Venezuelan of the Islamic world. 'nuff said.

The crass lifestyle they lead is well known throughout the Middle East and it is not admired.

The term "Islamic Cleric's follower" in Islam is actually wrong. There is no intermediary in the religion between a Muslim and God. That's why the religion is Islam, not "follower of Muhammed".

From what I'm observing, the religion itself is pretty libertarian in nature - but somehow the practice of Islam over the decades in some place includes plenty of extras such as religious police, etc, etc. Fatwa is never obligatory for example unless it is enforced by the state.

Islam itself is a mosaic - not a mono culture. The fact that is it not a mono culture is an evidence of practice in intellectual freedom.

What gets Muslims communities in trouble I think is lazy Islam - when individual Muslim stop exploring and discovering their own religion and delegating that to some Clerics.
Dody Gunawinata
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